{General} Mad ideas

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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by speaker-to-trolls »

I would advise caution about making the ACW too different since surely, surely having tanks and widespread machineguns that early on would alter the whole course of warfare and therefore of all history. Then I remembered that you guys had the napoleonic wars fought with battle droids and decided not to say anything.

Anyway, because I don't want to be the kind of smarmy bastard who can criticise but not contribute, I am thinking of getting back into the swing of things and reintroducing the Gargoyle Initiative, I'm hoping to tie their history in with the ideas about the Spanish Inquisition Siegetank mentioned earlier on. Basically my idea is that during the reformation both catholic and protestants started to crack down on anyone unfortunate enough to not be orthodox enough for them and in the wrong place at the time, ergo alchemists, sorcerors and the like started to feel the pinch. Now, at some time in the late rennaissance (possibly during the reign of Elizabeth I, possibly a while afterward so that James the Paranoid didn't get in the way) some English alchemists in good standing started providing a safe haven for practitioners of the arcane from other parts of Europe in exchange for their shared knowledge and expertise in how to defend Britain from eldritch horrors of the outer darkness. And the French.
I don't know if Gargoyle fits in with the rest of the Comix! universe, I have somewhat failed to keep up with it. I think it can coexist with RACKET easily enough since the two have different reactions to paranormal threats, RACKET goes in, smashes the alien monstrosity with heat rays or Sir Uthers mighty Britannic fists and is home in time for tea and medals. Gargoyle would be the ones quietly watching the monstrosity for a few months, trying to figure out what it is, what it wants and how best to deal with it, then when all that's done they'd hit it with a massive voodoo curse or call in RACKET with advice about which weapons to use, whichever was more appropriate.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Malchus »

speaker-to-trolls wrote:I would advise caution about making the ACW too different since surely, surely having tanks and widespread machineguns that early on would alter the whole course of warfare and therefore of all history. Then I remembered that you guys had the napoleonic wars fought with battle droids and decided not to say anything.
Kinda too late. Even back on old OZ's Comix the ACW was when the US Army Air Corps was born thanks to the Cherub flying suits (clockwork with some steampunk, of course) designed by the later founder of Skyhaven which he donated for mass production to the Union cause. The Gattling Carriages and Confederate steampunk spider mechs were mentioned a while back as well and have sort of been made canon thanks to consensus. Of course, Comix "canon" is by no means fixed and is always up for retconsensus as evidenced by recent discussion. So, those may change.

Still, such technologies aren't too widespread. Sure, the CSA had spider mechs, but their lack of industry makes the few and far between. The USA may have a lot more Cherubs and Gattling Carriages thanks to their industry, but they won't have WWI-level numbers of aircraft a no where near WWII-level numbers of armored vehicles. Like most 19th Century Wars in OTL, the ACW is still decidedly an infantry and artillery war. And IIRC consensus puts their tech level at around 20 years ahead: level-action repeaters, breech-loading rifles, and 1880s cannon being standard issue instead of rifle muskets and older cannons. And no true Maxim-style machine guns as of yet, only the hand-cranked Gattling guns.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Magister Militum wrote:Precisely how technologically different was the ACW in the first place?

Have you ever seen that Will Smith movie... Wild Wild West?


Anyway, fuck it. Screw making OZ Comix in anyway, shape or form even vaguely resembling reality. The Rule of Cool is totally in!

Those shitty Orthodox Church crosses with spikes on them so they can eviscerate birds and pigeons that shit on Church property? Well, in OZC, they can now shoot lightning.


Rasputin will be a Technovangelist. That's why the Romanovs cut his penis off and dumped him in a frozen lake.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Peregrin »

Perhaps Rasputin should have a bionic penis, then? :lol:

Anyway, I thought of originally having the TTC be an alchemist cult thingy from the middle ages that got lucky, but it being an alternate universe Greek Orthodox Church would make its prominence and size more believable. Perhaps they could at some point have struck an alliance with the Rosicrucians (or more formally, the Order of the Rosy Cross), a secret society of alchemists formed in Czechoslovakia in either the 16th or 17th century (I can't remember) with the purpose of ending the strife between religion and science, perhaps for reasons to do with when the Roman Catholic Church started persecuting the Rosicrucians? You know, in a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" way. That way we could keep the alchemy connection. :)

The Rosicrucians exist in real life, by the way. One of Bruce Dickinson's solo albums, The Chemical Wedding, is named after a Rosicrucian holy text! :geek:
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

The Orthodoxy could've sponsored them, like how the RCC sponsored lots of scientists in the past.

Or something.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:The Orthodoxy could've sponsored them, like how the RCC sponsored lots of scientists in the past.

Or something.
Could be. The Orthodoxy's motive could perhaps be to keep up in some kind of alchemical arms race, if the RCC had some contributions to those as well.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I was thinking of giving OZ Comix America its own super Mnogo Nuke Bomber, something special for the SAC (which would still be functioning in OZ Comix, working together with the SDI and the Space Forces and such) - since NORMAL bombers have weaknesses like requiring airstrips, and missile silos are still vulnerable by virtue of being ground-based.


Imagine a MEGA HUEG version of the B-70 mated with the F-117 and the Blackbird! Lockheed's foray into the strategic bomber department!

Bigger than a B-52, faster than the Valkyrie (or the Blackbird), and as stealthy as the F-117. An airborne missile silo with three dozen vertical launch silos, the same ones used by destroyers and ballistic missile subs... and a nuclear reactor to keep it indefinitely sub-orbital!


It can stay flying for five years before needing any refueling. And I think their flight path should be a continuous circumnavigation of the Continental USA to tell everyone "Don't fuck with us" while skimming at the edge of the atmosphere. Maybe they refuel in space since they cannot and MUST NOT land... ever! Because the whole point of their existence is for a deterrent that can NEVER be targeted by ICBMs or something.

I actually think these super bombers are equivalent to Technocratic flying wings. Well... maybe even meaner since they're not cathedrals and don't carry troops or ElectroBishops, just nukes.


Anyway, that's one idea for our Crazy Randome Altarnate Realty. Something for the Runaway Defense Budget nuts - a strategic weapons platform that is a bomber that serves a similar purpose to missile submarines, a mobile and hard-to-target weapons platform that rarely, if ever, lands or docks at port to rearm or refuel. Hell, they DON'T land - they dock with orbital assets for stuff.

By the 2000s, the fifty remaining bombers would have their nuke-fish reactors replaced with Binary Fusion Generators - BFGs that may or may not be linked to some kind of big honking gun that the bombers can point down for extra killines! They'd also be refitted to carry a shitload of conventional weaponry, aside from their silo-launched nukes.

Oh, and these guys would be why the USAF has retired the B-52, that Big Ugly Fat Fucker...
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Bigger than a B-52, faster than the Valkyrie (or the Blackbird), and as stealthy as the F-117. An airborne missile silo with three dozen vertical launch silos, the same ones used by destroyers and ballistic missile subs... and a nuclear reactor to keep it indefinitely sub-orbital!
This is ridiculous. A gigantic object travelling at Mach 3 or faster cannot possibly under any circumstance even approach any form of stealth whatsoever. Seriously, you're not going to go anywhere in an atmosphere at Ludicrous Speed and not create an enormous IR signature. This is why in CSW no-one really bothered to make the high fliers stealthy: it just can't be done. And this thing is going to be vastly larger than anything produced in CSW (plus it's powered by a nuclear reactor, which runs really hot).
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Ditch stealth then, and keep it HUEG and "HOVERING" (not really) right UP THERE. I mean, seeing those THINGS patrolling American airspace will really ruin the shit of anyone who wants to rain on Spartafreedomerica's parade.

Screw stealth! This thing is BIG and SCARY and is a total deterrent!


It uses hot nuclear reactors, but it's not like a Project Pluto with an atomic rocket or anything that leaves a contrail of catastrophic contamination. It uses the reactor like "modern" OZ Comix fusion-powered aircraft, to power the turbojets or scramjets or ramjets or whatever.

I wonder... subs are also powered by nuclear reactors, but they're still stealthy and relatively not-so-hot. Why's that?

Maybe the reactors can power LIGHTNING SHIELDS!
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:Ditch stealth then, and keep it HUEG and "HOVERING" (not really) right UP THERE. I mean, seeing those THINGS patrolling American airspace will really ruin the shit of anyone who wants to rain on Spartafreedomerica's parade.

Screw stealth! This thing is BIG and SCARY and is a total deterrent!
Sure, that could work. Maybe its VLS cells can launch Spartan-derivative anti-ballistic missiles ( :twisted: ) as well as some kind of supersonic ramjet Tomahawk variant. Man, that would ruin your day...
I wonder... subs are also powered by nuclear reactors, but they're still stealthy and relatively not-so-hot. Why's that?
If I had to venture a guess, probably because submarines have lots of water surrounding them that can be used to cool the reactor. Submarines also aren't detected (insofar as I know) with IR, whilst aircraft are.
Maybe the reactors can power LIGHTNING SHIELDS!
I think lightning shields ought to only be fitted to fortresses of doom, which probably means they need a lot of gear to work, which wouldn't fit on this aircraft, no matter how big it is.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

We need an appropriate name for this bad boy...

I can't think of anything!


EDIT:


And... yeah! It would be an AWESOME way of ABM defense. Screw THAADs, just put nukes on missiles and put those nuclear missiles on flying fortresses!
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Siege »

I would like its name to be something simple - like the B-76 Megafortress. It is to the Peacemaker what the Peacemaker was to the Superfortress! (Click me!)
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Magister Militum »

SiegeTank wrote:
I wonder... subs are also powered by nuclear reactors, but they're still stealthy and relatively not-so-hot. Why's that?
If I had to venture a guess, probably because submarines have lots of water surrounding them that can be used to cool the reactor. Submarines also aren't detected (insofar as I know) with IR, whilst aircraft are.
The main reason has to do with the fact that most modern nuclear submarines (at least for the USN) use a pressurized water reactor for power, which actually generates less power as its temperature increases, thus allowing submarines to keep their reactors not as hot as commerical plants.

EDIT: As for the name, I also agree with Siege that it should be simple, although I personally prefer Ultrafortress to Megafortress.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

I think Megafortress would be cool.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Shroom Man 777 wrote:It uses the reactor like "modern" OZ Comix fusion-powered aircraft, to power the turbojets or scramjets or ramjets or whatever.
Most fusion powered craft actually have fusion drives. The powerplant and propulsion system are one and the same, basically - a trickle of power from the reactor can be used to run avionics, ECM and what have you, and the rest of it is used to fling plasma out the back end and fling them off into spaaaace. Stuff like the Devilfish and Raptor X are actually torchships, writ really small.

And to be honest, I don't so much like Megafortress. If only Peacemaker hadn't already been used ...
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Malchus »

Well, I'm all for OZC America having a massive fusion-drive bomber that never has to land as some sort of nuclear deterent force. As for the naming, I'd prefer Peacekeeper myself since, well, with that thing hovering over your heads you'd be wise to keep your peace with whoever owns it. Or, is Peacekeeper also the name for a variant of the B-36 Peacemaker? If not, maybe we could go with that.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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A fusion-powered superbomber that never lands, forever patrolling American territory with its massive nuclear arsenal of death?

Supervillains must hijack it all the time.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Malchus wrote:Or, is Peacekeeper also the name for a variant of the B-36 Peacemaker? If not, maybe we could go with that.
"Peacekeeper" is the name of the LGM-118 ICBM (I guess they named it that way because if you have to light them off, the world will be briefly hectic and then very, very peaceful, or something...)

Insofar as ironic names are concerned I think "Reconciler" would be a nice one. Let's reconcile... With nuclear gravity bombs!
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

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Reconciler doesn't have the same ring as Peacemaker.

Fuck it, I say the real LGM-118 Peacemaker never got actualized in OZ Comix Spartafreedomerica. Von Reagan would see the foolishness of putting America's strategic deterrent in mere holes in the ground, holes in the ground that could be killed by the Goddamn Commies no thanks to the goddamn missile gap - and the goddamn bomber gap, too!

He'd put those strategic deterrents in airborne space-skimming megafortresses! So it is not the missile that is named the Peacemaker, but the megafortress itself! MEGAFORTRESS PEACEMAKER!

The fact that the strategic bomber force and the strategic missile force got merged into a single blasphemous progeny will be one of the reasons why the B-52 ended up getting retired relatively very early in OZ Comix Spartafreedomerica...

But there would still be a need for fast and stealthy killy planes, so we have Northrop and Rockwell (which Saint eventually eats) still creating fast and stealthy and killy B-01s and B-02s for more tactical roles since the Peacemaker is REALLY overkill for anything short of retaliation for sapping precious bodily fluids.

When Saint eats Northrop and Rockwell, he'd make the B-03 Polaris - another super fast and stealthy (invisible) and killy bomber. While the Peacemakers continue their never-ending vanguard of Freedomerica!

Plans for the Peacemaker would not include any mention about "retirement" or other silly nonsense like that.

Modernization would make them more than just airborne missile silo super bomber boomers. They'd turn them into Continental ABM systems (to an extent, they originally were equipped with ABM - Spartan missiles to counter any Soviet attempt at shooting Peacemakers down with ICBMs) thanks to advanced early warning systems and whatnot. Plus THELs and everything.

I don't know how they'd apply to conventional warfare, though. I mean, if something in the Middle East or the Balkans or somewhere Far Away needed a prompt and proper (non-nuclear) bombing, would ANYONE even ALLOW the Peacemaker to fly over their territories to get within range?

Then again.... if a Peacemaker's weapons range covers roughly one hemisphere of the Earth, if a Peacemaker were to leave American airspace and go to the middle of the Atlantic or the Pacific, it could conceivably cover the OTHER half of the world with its space-skimming hypersonic cruise missiles....

It's not all bad for the Soviets, though. Everytime a Peacemaker enters Alaskan airspace, on the other side of the Bering Sea, you'd see the Communist Manifester or Comrade Felix glaring angrily at America's megafortress - just daring it to pull some shit off.

Soviet strategies would be altered too. You'd have "fighter wings" of Tu-160s tasked at being wolf packs, so should shit hit the fan, they would hunt down designated Peacemakers... with their own hypersonic nuclear missiles!



Ford:

Okay, nuke-fish back in the day would've involved nuclear fission powering insane neverending (sc)ramjets for the Megafortress/Peacemaker/Reconciler. But now, with the wonders of fusion, the goddamn thing will have FUSION ENGINES! It will NEVER EVER have to land!

Hell, those fusion-powered ventral thrusters that allow these things to lift off from bodies of water (since they cannot lift off from land, they must do so from oceans... like the Great Lakes) could be, like, intensified so we can see an effect similar to Old Familiars Eastforce battleship immolators!

It will use technology similar to the Invasion of '97, when an alien mothership hovered over the White House and threatened to annihilate it!


Anyway, it's not exactly what Quartermass envisioned when he made the tech free-for-all.



Stratellites, HUEG zeppelin catamarans, and super-modified C-5 Galaxies (with dorsal hatches that open to allow... well, stuff to come out) would be charged with maintaining these Peacemakers.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Siege »

Peacekeeper, Shroom. Peacemaker is the B-36. Peacekeeper is the ICBM. But I'd be fine reassigning that name. It's awesome and fitting. "Peace is our profession", after all (war is just a hobby!)

"Megafortress" and other such names could be individual nicknames used by its crews. Not that many of these monsters would be built, after all. If we go all-out with the madness: perhaps they were fitted with top-of-the-line avionics and computers stuff in the 1980s, and they developed rudimentary personalities as a result! Superbombers with primitive minds built of IFF transponders, flight calculators and tape-recorded doomsday protocols, their gray titanium bodies fueled by nuclear fire...

Eat that, Raptor X!
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Ford Prefect »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:When Saint eats Northrop and Rockwell, he'd make the B-03 Polaris - another super fast and stealthy (invisible) and killy bomber.
Incidentally, despite EIS being next to perfect stealth technology, it still cannot be used when a plane is making usage of its full burn; in Things Might Get Trippy, the Theocats get confused because they have a formation of fusion tails coming in from space with nothing making them.
Anyway, it's not exactly what Quartermass envisioned when he made the tech free-for-all.
I reckon he had an inkling. ;)
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

Naaaaah. I don't think the Peacekeepers should have actual sentient Machine Spirits. Isn't that shtick reserved mostly for the Technotheocats and the Steamers? Then again, didn't Stuart do something similar in TBO (which I have not read)?

If we go with it, it can be "subtle" and stuff.

How many Peacekeepers would there be? No more than fifty. Fifty? Forty?
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Magister Militum »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:Naaaaah. I don't think the Peacekeepers should have actual sentient Machine Spirits. Isn't that shtick reserved mostly for the Technotheocats and the Steamers? Then again, didn't Stuart do something similar in TBO (which I have not read)?

If we go with it, it can be "subtle" and stuff.

How many Peacekeepers would there be? No more than fifty. Fifty? Forty?
The bombers talking with their crews in The Big One wasjust a plot device used to play up the real-life tendencies of pilots talking to their planes. The planes and their attitudes also symbolize America's attitudes at different points in history.

I personally would like the Peacekeepers to have actual personalities if anything because being one of the most leathal aircraft in existance would probably result in an interesting personality. Also, I would imagine that not too many of these monsters would have been built, so I would say somewhere around forty or less.
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Shroom Man 777 »

The amount of these monsters would depend on what other forces, factions, and nations are sporting as well. You've got private armies with the most advanced bomber and submarine fleets in the world, submarines that can "surface" to the edge of the solar system. You've got royal airforces with aerial armadas commanded by Dame Angelina Jolie, who launches amphibious squadrons (:D) to ruin Doctor Weird's crossbred shit. And who knows what the French and the Russians are sporting.

(Actually, the Russians have the cosmo battleship Arkangel... but the Americans also have the Valley Forge. Siege suggested a name for a second USAF vessel, but I forgot. Was it New Gettysburg? I dunno.)
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Re: {General} Mad ideas

Post by Magister Militum »

Shroom Man 777 wrote:(Actually, the Russians have the cosmo battleship Arkangel... but the Americans also have the Valley Forge. Siege suggested a name for a second USAF vessel, but I forgot. Was it New Gettysburg? I dunno.)
If that was the case, then I would drop the 'New' part, since it's completely unecessary (you don't see a New Iowa or New New Jersey floating out there in the ocean for a reason).
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